We are very excited to share our episode with Marianne Page; Renowned best-selling author, Systems guru who has now published not 1 but 3 books to great success. She has worked at senior management level in one of the biggest and most recognisable global brands, McDonald’s, and now she works with SMEs, helping them to scale and grow.
In today’s episode, the focus is on effective employee engagement and how to inspire development within your teams. The industry faces many challenges with employee engagement, so it feels only right to get the insight and knowledge from an expert in engagement systems on how to effectively engage with employees and some of the things that the industry should be focusing on to grow as a whole.
The episode will prove to be valuable for leadership not only within the parking industry but anyone who aspires to lead a high-performing team.
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Ryan Jackson
Hi guys, I’m extremely excited to introduce today’s guest. Joining us on the show today is a renowned best-selling author and systems guru who’s published not one but three books. They’ve worked at senior management level for over a quarter of a decade in one of the biggest and most recognisable global brands. And now she works with SMEs, helping them to develop high-performing and engaged teams in order to scale and grow. So without further ado, let’s welcome to the show, Miss Marianne Page.
Marianne Page
Thank you very much. I sound like I sound ancient already, as you put it.
Ryan Jackson
When we decided that we were going to talk about the topic of employee engagement and development. It just only felt right that we brought Marianne on the show just for the fact that we have history, Marianne, don’t we?
Marianne Page
We do, indeed.
Ryan Jackson
We certainly do so, Marianne, worked with us. We established that it was about four years ago. Yes, it is scary how how quick time goes. Marianne came in to assist us when we were at the stage whereby we needed to become more efficient as an organisation. We needed to develop ourselves and level up really. So we were looking at our our systems and our processes and how we could become more effective as an organisation. And so that collectively as an industry, we can learn and grow. And I guess ultimately raise the bar in how we operate individually as companies.
Alastair Finlayson
And not do just that, I think it’s more of what the wider industry – obviously this is a parking focused show. And so the industry typically hasn’t got high employee engagement. It’s got quite a high level of turnover. So just try and delve into your knowledge base of how to keep somebody engaged, how to get somebody to start from the bottom and work their way up and become a key player of the team rather than just constantly churning through the motions.
Marianne Page
I have to say it is an real delight to be invited onto a show. Well, to be invited onto the show. Full stop. But to be invited onto the show to talk about employee engagement rather than come and talk to us about systems. Because you actually get that systems are just something that helps to create employee engagement. And because people always refer to me as, you know, the systems guru or, you know, oh, she’s the systems woman or she’s the McDonald’s woman.
But but actually, for me, it is all about the people, because if you you know, it systems only exist to make people’s lives easier and better and to keep a team engaged within a business. So it’s it’s it’s lovely to be going to be talking about that rather than the boring words like system and process.
Ryan Jackson
Yeah. They are quite boring. And I think they represent an old paradigm within business. And you know that left brain thinking and analytical mind and that is everything we’re not really.
And so if you can Marianne, can you give us a bit more on your background and the history of Marianne Page over the past quarter of a decade?
Marianne Page
I joined McDonald’s, actually, till I could find a better job. And you might my mum and dad were horrified that I joined this glorified fish and chip shop as they saw it. What McDonald’s did for me over the over a quarter of a century, they just took me on this amazing learning journey. And one of the things that I take from it is that at McDonald’s, you you’re taught to train the team member, but develop the individual. So you’re constantly you’re you’re given the skills that you need to do your job. But then you’ve developed beyond that to become a better person, the best version of yourself to fulfil your potential. I started in the restaurants, you know, shovelling chips, fries, obviously, and flipping burgers. And I absolutely loved it. It was bloody hard work. But it was great. And you’re working with a team and, you know, I’d see new people coming in when I was a restaurant. Somebody would sort of shuffle through the door, hair over their face. And within a few days, they were part of the team. They were, you know, they just got it. But after a couple of years in the restaurant, I was asked to come into the training department tonight, I spent quite a few years in as the training manager, developing courses, teaching every level of person coming through, all of the managers, the franchisees.
It was a real privileged position to be in because you got to impact so many people within the business.
And then when you went out into the business, like it was great and then they asked me to set up the customer services department. Believe it or not, they didn’t have one at the time. That was amazing because I got to develop the systems that we would work to, but also cherry pick the people. I’ve got to be honest, once I’d set up the department, it was running well. I couldn’t be bothered with “I’ve been through you drive through and the fries are missing” they’d say, oh, god, it was tedious. It really was hard to listen to to some of the wonderful customer calls.
Alastair Finlayson
The customer isn’t always right.
Marianne Page
Yes. Yes. That was an ongoing discussion with the team. Is the customer always right?
And then after that, I was I was happy. I was promoted into run group of departments, which is, you know, from from where I left, we parted company.
And. And at the time, it was a real wrench because it you know, regardless of how you leave somewhere that you’ve been that long or what your reasons are for leaving, it’s a real wrench to leave some that that was home. I had literally grown up in that place. I was incredibly naive, 21 year old. And I just learned so much. And so you saw the world, met David Beckham. A couple of times actually.
Ryan Jackson
In McDonalds?
Marianne Page
Through through McDonald’s, not in haha.
It was an amazing, amazing experience. And when I left and start my own business, I thought at the time that I that I wanted to teach people customer service. You know all about giving a great customer experience. And then I just got this. feeling: “I’m going to be bored within 12-18 months”
And a guy who’d actually started out working in McDonald’s as a as a young young crew member said “Systems, Marianne systems. That’s what McDonald’s are all about.”
That’s what, you know, everybody, even those people who hate McDonald’s, look to McDonald’s and say, god they are so consistent and reliable and it’s down to the systems. Because for me, it was just it was just the way everything got done. We didn’t ever talk about systems. We didn’t talk about systems. We didn’t go, you know, “ooh what’s the system for this?” It’s just, there’s one way to cook French fries. This is it. Learn it and don’t deviate from it. And that was just the way things got done.
Alastair Finlayson
Then when you say that, it’s been a little bit of a “fast food connoisseur” myself. McDonald’s always do seem to be the quickest turnaround for the food. It just always seems to be consistent. Whereas you go into other fast food franchises even sit down restaurants and they’re not as polished and streamlined as McDonald’s, where it is very much: You know what you get and you get consistently.
Whereas some places it can be a little bit a mess. I guess it boils down to the root of that and how things are prepared. And as you said, if there’s one way to put fries, whereas I guess you go to other franchises of other fast food restaurants, one restaurant. It’s this way. And another restaurant. It just tastes different. I don’t know how to describe it.
Marianne Page
And if you know, if anything ever deviates, it’s usually service related rather than food related. Does that make sense? Because you know that that is where the people where the people factor steps in. You can tell whether there’s a good manager in place or a good franchisee and that they are you know, they are on their operation and they want it to be right. You can really tell. And the ones where they’re just leaving their team.
If they’ve set up their team right, their team will run the restaurant. Right. But if they’ve been if they’ve come in with the wrong mindset, if they don’t have the right values, then you can tell. Well, certainly, I can tell from all of the years of experience of seeing that and seeing what happens when the person at the top doesn’t set their stall out. Right.
Ryan Jackson
Interesting. And just touched upon the term of values and. Something that is becoming more prevalent within business now, and where we consider ourselves to be a a values based organisation.
Marianne Page
Well, one of the things that drew me to you was your values and that everything the way you were setting up your business was based on your values. I remember very early discussions and the board you had up in your office wall at the time where the team had all themselves written, what the was it what they saw as the meaning of the values that you had within the business as it was. It was wonderful.
It really, really stuck with me that values leads into culture. You’ve got a great culture within this within this business.
Ryan Jackson
Thank you. And so from your experience, what difference do values make to an organisation?
Marianne Page
If the leader of the organisation, the business owner, has really good values, you know, if they if they really believe in caring for their people, in developing the people, in looking after the customer, it’s not all just talk that they actually they live it. Then if they then hire people who share those values, then you’re already onto a winner.
Because what what regularly happens is that a business owner will just hire somebody whose CV looks right, who just fits the moment.They don’t dig into in the interview process. They don’t dig into their values because they don’t they don’t recognise that you don’t understand it. They don’t often they don’t know what their own values are. The number of times I’ll say it’s people “what are your values” and they respond “Honesty and integrity.” It’s like.
Ryan Jackson
Its as if they have gone on to Google and searched what their corporate values should be.
Alastair Finlayson
It’s almost like the split personality they’ve got themselves and then they’ve got their business, their business self. And while they may actually have values, they’ve got the blinkers on. They can’t seem to be able to incorporate their own personal values into business.
Marianne Page
Absolutely.
Alastair Finlayson
So it’s not that they haven’t got values. It just comes in the office and there are different people and they go home and they might be the values based individual rather than intertwine the two.
Marianne Page
Absolutely. I keep saying that. And I definitely know everybody, everybody has values. Some people’s values are, you know, not as high intentioned as as you’d like them to be. But everybody has values. And the business will, whether the business owner is aware of this or not, the business will follow the business owners values . So if if if the business owner saying, you know, care for your customer and then the first time a customer complains that calling them you know, everything from here to next week, that that’s what their team will will follow and recognise. Or if they say that they really care about people development, but then they don’t give anybody any training or they don’t know if there is a course that somebody needs to go on to develop a particular skill. They won’t pay for it, then they don’t really care about it. So it’s it’s walking the talk.
But when it comes to it, when you said about what does it mean in terms of a team? If you don’t hire to your values, then you’re building in problems. Further down the line, if you don’t recognise what your values are and then hire people who share them, then you will have problems further down the line. And there’s a question I love asking, which is:
How many of your existing team, given the chance, would you rehire tomorrow?
Alastair Finlayson
Powerful.
Marianne Page
And I can honestly say, there’s only one business owner. And I’ve asked this to a lot of people now, there’s only one business owner has ever said all of them. Every single one of them. It’s wonderful. You stand in front of room and you ask that question and you see this sort of look. They start nudging eachother and saying “John” , “yeah he’s never been right” Oh, okay. How long he been with you? “Oh about eleven years”. And they they they are ruining the team. They’re ruining the rest of the team because they never get it right.
Ryan Jackson
And only takes one bad apple doesn’t it to have a negative effect on the team.
Marianne Page
Yes, and the business owner loses respect for every day that they keep that wrong person in the team because everybody’s going “when is he going to sort him out?” “look he is doing it again and the boss isn’t doing anything!” And it just it causes you really good people to say: “Why should I bother”
Values are massively important, massively important in a business. But you’re right that people see it as fluff.
Ryan Jackson
I think I can hold my hand up. I was responsible for it. When I first opened up Gemini went onto Google and just looked at what are corporate values, or business values. There was a full list and I was okay. Integrity or professionalism? And they mean nothing whatsoever. And and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that. The problem is that a lot of business owners are not conscious of what their values are. And this is something that. Talking about in my upcoming book coming out in may called The Success Rebellion.
Marianne Page
Can’t wait to read it!.
Ryan Jackson
And this, I think is a problem with most people, is they are unaware of what they value as being important in life and with business, it’s a level of artistry. So your business should reflect who you are as an organisation. So if you haven’t got clarity on who you are, then ask him to be evident within your business. There is going to be that level of unclarity.
But what I want to ask you is how does having a values based approach and having making it sure there is that alignment between your values as an organisation and your employees? How does that affect employee engagement?
Marianne Page
If you hire people who don’t share your values, then as I say you are sort of building in problems further down the line because you’re going to ask people to do things or be in a particular way. Like, for example, if you’re a business that every now and again decide the pressure’s on and you’ve got a you know, you gotta stay to get something done for clients, but you hire people that, you know, looking at their watch and and oh, god, no, that’s not my job description.
Those are those are, in essence, your values coming through or their values coming through. And you get me wrong. I know that certain people have to go because of commitments and that sort of thing. But but the people who are just they’re not interested in finishing the job. They’re just interested in. I clock in. I do my job. I leave my brain at the door. I clock out. I pick up my brain and often go to the pub or whatever. And, I know that I’m stereotyping here. But if you bring somebody in who really shares your values and who buys it and gets excited about your vision for your business. And this is where I think you’ve got a real headstart over a number of your competitors possibly, is that you do hire people based on your values. You do. You are very clear about what your values are. You are really clear about your vision for what you want Gemini to be. And people buy into that and they get excited by it. And even those who start, come and think I’ll just do six months they I’ll go. But it’s exactly what happened to me with McDonald’s. I I joined thinking, I’ll stay here till I can get a better job.
At the time, that was John Lewis, or Marks and Spencers.
But, you know, if you start thinking one thing, but then you get sucked in to the culture that is built on your values because values lead to culture. You can’t just magic up a culture, your values. And how you live your values day to day and how true you are to your values every day makes the culture that then sucks people into it. Or if you make a bad hire, spews people out of it. And I saw that a lot at McDonald’s people who just didn’t get the culture they wanted to be 9-5 or whatever. And the culture just, you know, no, that’s not the way we work. We were a team. We work together to get the job done. When the job’s done, we’ll celebrate and we’ll we’ll have fun, but until it’s done, we work together.
So you bring somebody in, they love your culture, but then you take them on a journey.
Ryan Jackson
And as you said, I don’t necessarily think it’s just about the values. It’s an element of it. I think one of the important things as well is that vision is that journey. It just makes you know that you are working towards something.
Marianne Page
Yeah. Where are we going? And more importantly for me is your new team member. Where am I going? And, you know, we talk a lot about, well, there’s the employee journey. That’s it’s sort of the more HR. stuff, you know, making sure that you’ve got all your legal contracts and so on. Right. That you do your probation effectively, that you’ve got your two year, you know that when the end of a two year period is in case there’s any issues and so on.
But more importantly for me is the learning journey. And so what do you want every single team member to know in their first week? Do you want to know about your vision and getting really into actually what that what that really looks like? You actually might have talked about at the interview, but not gone into detail. Who your clients are and what sort of people your clients are and why you work with them against others. What do you want everybody to know in their first week?
Do they have to pass a health and safety exam? Are there certain things that they have to do? But then in their role. What do you need them to know when they’re first 90 days?
So in the example of parking. I’m the appeals administrator. What do I need to know how to do in my first 90 days? What are all of the individual tasks that I need to master in my first 90 days in order to prove that I can do the job?
How are you going to challenge me for things that I might not really have to do in my first 90 days, but I’m going to have to do in my first year so that you can check whether I’m right for the role and also whether we’re right for each other, really? So that first 90 days is absolutely crucial. And it’s another reason that people have individuals in their business that shouldn’t be there because they don’t get to a yes or no answer at the end of 90 days.
So for me, your hiring process doesn’t end until somebody passes their probation. All the way through to that if they’re still not on trial. But they’ve got to prove themselves. Got to prove that they are absolutely fit for your culture and that they can perform the role to the level that you want. So what do they need to know? Has anybody got that written down? Well, you know, we talk about team training map. So you’d you’d map all of the rules in your business and then go, OK, what does everybody need to know first week? What does this rule need to know in the first 90 days? And you just map it out
Once you’ve got that map, then you can start building with that. I’ve talked you before about the one right way to do it. Well, like I said about there’s only one one way to cook French fries. What is the Gemini way to do all of the tasks featured in those roles? Because there should just be one right way to do it.
Your standard. This is the way we do it. There’s no dispute. This is the Gemini way. Once you’ve got that, then you get consistency. And everybody knows where they’re at. Everybody knows where they’re at. And knowing where you’re at is really important in employee engagement.
Alastair Finlayson
And I guess if it’s only one way of doing each set task, even if that task isn’t somebodies speciality, they work in a different department, but they would know the process is just one way. Now they might not do on it a daily basis, but they still know that. So in the event of someone’s off or someone’s in doubt: You’ve always been a point of reference when everyone’s on the same page.
Ryan Jackson
And they may not necessarily know it, but they can access that information and that’s the important thing.
And so as an industry, we there’s definitely an issue in regards to employee engagement, maybe not on a senior management level, but especially with field teams. So, you know, do you have any recommendations? I know for us, as an organisation, when it comes to company culture is very apparent that it’s happening in-house in head office. But then I’m not necessarily convinced that it’s the same case when it comes to the field team.
So do you have any recommendations on how organisations can perhaps enhance their level of engagement with the field?
Marianne Page
Yeah, absolutely. It s it then is down to how much you can involve them in the team and your your level of communication. So, you know, do you have a communication system whereby they are you know, somebody calls them up every day. How are you doing? Your set for the day for your in-house team is like having a daily huddle.
But the daily huddle is actually a call to each individual that just shows that you give a damn. And it you know, it doesn’t have to be you as business owner that makes that call. But somebody that they can just call and say “had a crap night last night” and say: Come on. Here’s your challenge for today. You know, you know what your goal is for the day?
Alastair Finlayson
I guess the point is just making them feel involved in a valued member. Obviously, I’ve not been an outside of the office worker, I’m based here, but I imagine it can get quite lonely. You’re out and about, you don’t report to somebody on a daily basis. You start your shift, you go and do what you need to do and then you finish and there’s almost that sole responsibility and you can feel a bit lonely and isolated.
And yeah, a lot of the time they would only communicate if it’s down to they’ve got a problem where they want to raise a concern. So I think it’s key yet to get that involvement in that daily check up. Just to make sure they are okay if they feel up to date with what’s going on in the company as a whole.
Marianne Page
Yes, true. How many people have you got out in the field?
Ryan Jackson
About 16 right now.
Marianne Page
So if there was that would take probably an hour to have 16 checkups or you could split the calls between two different people, two people making 8 calls each twice a day even just because it is literally it’s just that check in. But the other thing I would say with hiring those individuals is talking through their expectations of what it’s like to to work at a distance from rest the team. Because for me, it’s it’s it’s similar to working from home.
As you know, not everybody has the has the ability to work well from home.
You know, people some people get very distracted very easily or isolated or bored. Can they cope well with working on their own? Do they do they see it as any sort of a problem that they’d be just out on their own and also giving them strategies for how to make it more interesting for themselves.
You know from what you’ve learned from your experienced operatives in the field, how does it make every day a good day. Do they need to build relationships with people that they’re and that they’re around? Are they always around somebody? I don’t know. I remember talking to your guy at the hospital and he he had built relationships with people that he that he saw regularly. Not sort of going down to the pub with. But just that sort of interactions like a secondary team on the side that he was working wit. For those that are working around site to site. It’s it’s a bit more difficult. So they have to make the effort to communicate here as well as your guys here making the effort to communicate out to them. Ideally, you will have strategies for keeping them involved.
Ryan Jackson
There’s probably a lot of organisations that don’t. Whereas we we ensure there’s daily calls made to each of our car park managers and that would be carried out by a senior line manager, etc. But no, just for my understanding and from having conversations we have with other representatives of operators. I don’t necessarily feel that it’s something that is standardised across the industry.
And I think what happens with a number of companies is that they they hire, again, out of desperation where they’ve got a gap to fill. And time is money at the end of the day. And so they generally hire desperation and they get these individuals that come on board that as they are not aligned to their values, whatever they may be. And so they’ve got them that they represent in them. They’re the ambassadors for their company. And it doesn’t work. I think you have some of the elements whereby you haven’t got that communication on a daily basis. So they’re not involved in what culture there is. And on top of that, you haven’t got the right people on board in the first instance. I think these are some of the problems that I see with a lot of operators.
So would you be able to give some advice on how they could perhaps overcome those challenges?
Marianne Page
But it’s also, I think, how you take the fear away from new hires of being in the role that they’re in, you know, because they will be faced with challenging situations and challenging people. So you know, what level of what level of training and development do they get to deal with those situations effectively to have strategies for them to to not take them on board and feel that they are being personally attacked? What can you do? It’s back to that training. Training the employee and the skills that they need to develop, which will develop the person because those are those are then lifelong skills. And you know, being able to deal with an aggressive person or an upset person. And actually you can both go away feeling good about themselves. And that’s that’s a great skill to to teach somebody.
One question I want to ask you is how what’s the average turnaround of your operatives out in the field?
Ryan Jackson
So we’ve got individuals that have been with us for for many years. Yeah. I think I longest standing operative has been with us for about six years now or thereabouts.
And so I think of recent we’ve had a few issues. We have turnover, just people coming in, haven’t been the right fit. So again, it’s from the offset is the interview process. And where I’m not necessarily involved in that is them passing the responsibility to other individuals that may not be as aware or conscious of what values are and how to assess another’s values.
But at the same time, I think it’s a necessary process for them to experience the negative in order to understand what the positive looks like.
So and I know my journey in the beginning, you know, you sometimes you bring on people that aren’t necessarily good for the business, but is a part of the learning process. You have to have those failures. You have those learning outcomes. You know in a perfect world. You would love to skip past that. But I think, you know, we’re not living in that world.
Marianne Page
It’s interesting because in the in the perfect world. And this is something that that McDonald’s definitely got right. Was that it didn’t matter what position you came into the business as you come in as managing director, you went out and worked in the restaurants for a couple of weeks. To understand what it was like at the coalface so that, you know, you were never in a position where you were just going to just get on with it. It’s that easy. You’d experienced what you know, what hard could look like on the shop floor. What’s challenging customers might look like. What a massively busy Saturday felt like and so on. In your business. The people who are managing your operatives may not know what it’s like.
Ryan Jackson
It depends on the organisation. For us, It’s all part of our induction processes. They would actually be at the earliest involved in that process. And even from a head office perspective, the head office staff actually go out. They shadow a car park manager, you know, for an afternoon or a morning whatever it may be for them to really get an understanding of the sites. Plus some of the issues that carpark managers go through, so they just got that that awareness and experience to be able to support them.
Marianne Page
It’s massively important to understand where, you know, so. So if somebody’s having a bad day because they’ve had, you know, three people chat with them or whatever to be able to empathise properly with that because, you know, you understand what it’s you understand what it’s like and you can give them the coping strategies. I do think in terms of, you know, the learning journey that I was talking about, it is that two levels you want your operatives to have the skills to, you know, to understand their role, but you also want to develop those broader skills in terms of the coping with difficult situations, keeping yourself motivated when you might be feeling isolated. What to do if you feeling isolated.
Ryan Jackson
I guess is training. And it is probably one of the areas in which the business of the industry is lacking.
Alastair Finlayson
And it’s quite interesting because obviously you’ve got those two strands of training really. Is that the training to do the job and as the training of the individual. Yes, but the training of the individual actually makes doing the job a lot easier. Yeah. And it’s not just that they are transferable skills where if they were to go on their way and find somewhere else, you’ve left them in a better position than when you found them.
And I think that’s really absolutely from employee engagement. To have someone come into the company, you alluded to the McDonald’s example of the person coming with hair covering their face. And then a couple of days later, they’ve come out of their shell and I guess it embedded them into the team and making them feel welcome to bring out the best within.
Marianne Page
Yes, that’s it.
Ryan Jackson
I guess is that, you know, conventional education, meaning industry related exams or or qualifications that don’t serve any purpose outside of the role of the industry. But then is the actual personal development: growing that individual. Equipping them with the tools, the skills that they can then transfer in all areas of their life.
Alastair Finlayson
Not even just work, but even outside personally in relationships, friendships.
Marianne Page
Yeah. Absolutely. If you, if you were to talk to anybody that worked as a crew member in McDonald’s before they went on to do a proper job, you know the doing it to get money. The majority will say it was a great education in terms of teamwork. I learned how to be part of a team. I learned how to work my own initiative. I learned the importance of systems, whatever it might be.
They will all get that, even though they know at the crew level the turnover is is quite high because, you know, you get students who come back for summer.
In your industry. It could actually be a selling point for for your hiring process that we don’t expect you to be here forever because you might have somebody who comes in and then stays forever. But we know that this might be something that you don’t see yourself doing long term.
But, you know, you give us a couple of years of your time. This is what we’ll give you. This is you know, this is what we’re about. We’re not just about, you know, shoving you out into the world with a ticket giver or whatever. We’re more than that.
Yes, absolutely. This is your role. This is what you will learn from this role, from doing this role. This is how you benefit as an individual, as a person. And because throughout life, you’re going to upset people. We’re going to give you the tools to learn how to deal with people skills. So you can really sell it. As you know, at the end of the day, the good is still got to go out and do the same job that you asked them to do now.
But if their mindset around it is very different, more empowered. Yeah. And also, if they don’t see it as, oh, my God, I said, this is what I’m stuck in this job forever. Because dudes there are there are people who go into certain jobs like, I guess security guards who do 12 hour shifts overnight saying with that, How do they do that?
Alastair Finlayson
I’d say I heard a lot of them actually carry on at education when working in a night shift. You know, I guess it’s using time wisely and making the most of your time in a company.
Marianne Page
Yeah. Ultimately people have different mindsets about different things. But if you want people who share your values and who are of a of the calibre that you need to be good in that role and right for your team, then offering them something. Paint them a picture that’s beyond what is on the surface.
Ryan Jackson
So I guess it goes back to the vision. Or what they can get out of nothing. I guess one of the issues is change in the mindset of those at the top. So the business owners, you know, CEOs, managing directors, because in order for that to happen, they then have to make a reinvestment back into the people, back into the business.
And unfortunately, a lot of people are just solely revenue driven. They don’t think that bigger picture or having a higher purpose other than to generate. And sometimes they’re under pressure because they have to meet the needs of, you know, or increase shareholder value. However, I think that is probably one of the biggest issues with the industry is the lack of training. You have WAMITAB that’s been launched over the past 18 months of them about’s, but the uptake of people were actually going through that process and having their car park managers qualified or administration teams qualified from what we hear is minimal.
So it is evident that that is probably one of the sticking points for most organisations. They’re not prepared to make that investment back into the team.
Alastair Finlayson
And it’s an interesting point. You raise and reminds me of a story when I was at a parking event, I can’t remember who I was speaking to.So I can’t throw anyone under the bus, but is how the car park operatives, car park managers are valued. And I remember this conversation and the gentleman said to me, “oh, yeah, we pay a minimum wage” and he was almost proud of the fact of sayinging that. And it just shows, well, you’re here, at a fancy event, drinking an expensive champagne and you’re boasting about paying somebody minimum wage. So how how can you expect to have employee retention when in how they must feel is in their bosses eyes that they don’t mean anything?
Marianne Page
Yeah, absolutely. And I do think that I I hate the expression human resources. Because just calling people human resources. You know, I do think in a in a values driven business, treating everybody as an individual is key.
And if you’re not in a in a massive organisation, knowing every individual, you know who they are. There’s an old chief exec, a friend of mine at McDonald’s, and he remembered everybody’s name, their partner’s name, their children’s names. He was just amazing at it.
And it makes people feel special.
It makes people feel like, oh, I’m an individual.
Alastair Finlayson
It does go a long way doesn’t it.
Marianne Page
It is so simple. And it’s. And you know. When we were talking about interviewing, one of the things that I bang on about is having a memorable first day for all the right reasons. So many first days are just shocking.
You have all seen it: “Oh, God, is it today? But today you here… the old oh, just sit and look at that website.” And, you know, it’s completely uninspiring that if the business owner can’t speak to the person on their first day, know by phone or in person to even just have a little video or an audio. “I’m out of the country at the minute, but I just wanted to welcome you to the team. Great to have you on board” or “excited for, you know, what you could do with us, what value you can add”. Honesty it would take 60 seconds, but it would mean so much the individual. Even if what you said about the minimum wage, you can make somebody on the minimum wage feel like a king or queen. If you treat them right and you treat them as an individual and you recognise they are more than the role that they are performing with you.
There was a woman I used to work with. She was a salt of the earth, let’s call her that. And then she used to work in the restaurant at head office and she was curmudgeonly. You know, she would be rude to people when she serving them. And then she went on to God knows why. But she was put on to reception. And just – she’s just not the right person for a customer facing role.
And at one stage, I I took on and my first thought was, well, she has to go. But in in going through this performance management process, I got to know a bit more about her. And, you know, she was a single mother with three children and she loved her role.
She just never had any feedback about what she was like. And I put her into the post room. Oh, my God. She transformed. Wow. She just transformed. She would not she would not leave it at night. And, you know, if there was a parcel, somebody was wanting to get a parcel out late at night. She would not leave until it was gone. Or if it was arriving. She was just amazing from a bit of feedback, somebody understanding her situation and putting it in a role that was the right fit for her.
Ryan Jackson
Powerful, very powerful – just recognising her natural skillset.
Marianne Page
Yes. She was brilliant at organising because she had to organise three kids before she came in to do a full time job. And she’s still there now. Still in the post room. It’s fantastic. She outlasted me.
Ryan Jackson
But it just shows you that, you know, when you take that time and invest in your people to understand them as individuals, as opposed to just numbers. And not looking at it from a black and white perspective. Because everyone has something to give to the world. Every everyone can add value to your business. Yeah, but it’s just for you to recognise as to what that is. And maybe a lot of the time I appreciate that some of the line managers may not necessarily have that skill set where they can recognise that that’s what I feel is very important to help them to become almost coaches and give them the tools, give them the training. So they’ve got the expertise to be able to guide people and develop them as often as in possible.
Marianne Page
You said that that that everybody has something tied to team and I. I do agree with that to an extent that the only thing I would say is that I’m a big believer that there are no bad people. There are just people who are not right for your business yet.
And and it and that’s OK. They will be right for somebody else’s business or they will be right in in a different role andin a different culture. You know, there will be a perfect fit somewhere.
But actually, we all do it. We we want to hang on to somebody. And we. It’s like a personal failure if we let somebody go when actually we’re doing them a disservice. It’s actually a service to somebody to say you’re actually not right for this culture, but I recognise this in you. And I think you you know, you’ve definitely got skills. You definitely got things to add, but you’re just not right for our culture.
You’ll be perfect for somebody else.
Alastair Finlayson
And it might not even just be down to the company culture, but the industry as well. Say for example someone that might be a lot more hands on, put them behind a computer and they absolutely sink. And there is this saying that you don’t choose your job, your job chooses you. While you might naturally gravitate to wanting to do something, you might be awful at it. And whereas the right job when it when it finds you, you just take to it like a duck in water.
Marianne Page
Yeah, absolutely. So like the lady I’m talking about too. Absolutely awful in a service. But put her in a an organisational role and actually some of her service skills came out. If that makes sense.
I’m a big believer in let people go. Don’t hang onto them because it’s too much of a pain in the backside for you to re rehire if they’re not right. And you recognise that. Don’t prolong probation, which I see all the time. Or, you know. Oh, well, you know, I’m sure within in six months they’ll come good.
You know if they’re good for you.
Ryan Jackson
This is it, an important saying that I tell all of the team and it is once someone shows themselves, believe them. So in that induction process, people are going to demonstrate their true nature. And so that might either be in alignment with who we are as organisation or it might be the complete opposite. So we actually recognising it. Seeing it for what it is and making your judgements upon that. It is very important.
Alastair Finlayson
Yes. And it’s also being mindful of not trying to salvage something just because you put time in. Investment bankers for example, you know, the younger ones, might have invested so much money and it sinking. And they tell themselves, I can save it and continue to dump more money in. And just because you put time into it, it doesn’t mean that you can continue. Right? Walk away. Whereas a more experienced investment bankers, if they’re not confident in that investment, they see it coming, they will cut their losses and walk away.
And sometimes you need to make that decision, albeit very hard.
Ryan Jackson
And I think there’s organisations at that actually take it to the extreme like you have Zappos and Zappos is rated the number one company in the world to work for their unique happiness culture. And so they are at a point, during the probation period. They’re actually offered I think it was over two thousand or five thousand dollars to actually walk away if they’re not 100 percent happy, if they don’t fit their right fit for the business. And so they know that anybody coming on board wants to be there and wants to be a part of that team. And they go through various other processes before that point. But I think that’s a powerful example of how committed some organisations actually are to developing that unique culture.
Alastair Finlayson
It also shows where the individual’s values lie, whether they’re willing to cash out for a quick buck.
Marianne Page
Yeah, exactly right. I only have two golden rules for hiring. One is hire to your values and the other is never hire in a hurry. Because so many mistakes are made.
Ryan Jackson
Hire slow fire fast.
Marianne Page
Yeah, absolutely, because it goes to what you were just saying there about you’ve put so much time and effort into the hiring process. You get, know, eight or nine people that you interview. And instead of going, none of them were right. I’m going to start again. You go “they were the best”. We’ll take them on because they were the best. But actually if you were interviewing the Muppets and it was just it was just the best Muppets. You get who you settle for. Because there is not somebody who is a stand out fit for your business.
It’s so much more worth the effort effort to just go back through the recruitment process, even though it’s a pain in terms time, too. It’s a pain in terms of money. But absolutely, it’s worth it to get the right person into your business.
Ryan Jackson
I agree. And so, Marianne, I understand that you have a fourth book that’s due to be released soon. Can you give us a bit more background on that?
Marianne Page
It’s called “Mission to Manage” Because managing people shouldn’t be mission impossible.
Ryan Jackson
I love it. I love it.
Marianne Page
It comes from the more organisations I go into, the more managers I see who have been just plucked from the team as the best person in the team. So let’s make the manager. But then given absolutely no development in the skills of being a manager. Back in the day at McDonald’s, there’s a managers development program. And there were five levels to it and you just went through level one and then you went to level two and so on and just gradually building your skills as a manager. And to be honest, you never really stop learning, do you, as manager. But the mission to manage book is the basic skills. It’s, you know, how to train, how to delegate, how to give feedback, because so many people are appalling it at having non-confrontational feedback, conversations, how to manage upwards so that, you know, you’re not just constantly at the whims of your boss. And really, it starts with what we were talking about earlier. Getting that mindset right. You know, having the mindset of:
I am not now in a position of power. I’m in a position of responsibility.
It’s now my responsibility to make sure that every one of my team members fulfills their potential, that they know that they’re working to their highest standards, to our highest standards, that they fit in with our values. And it’s getting that mindset right from the start.
I had a very interesting conversation. Probably a couple of years ago now with a guy on LinkedIn. And he was telling, just shouting. I think that we should all recognise that everybody who came to work for us was either stupid, lazy and out to get a divorce – awful. And he just could not get where I was coming from at all. And I just felt so sorry for anybody that had to work for him. Can you imagine? But it is a reality.
So Mission to Manage, out in July, in a bookstore near you!.
Ryan Jackson
Amazing. And when do the pre-orders start?
Marianne Page
Pre-orders start in April.
Ryan Jackson
Amazing. Do we have some spare copies that we could perhaps share to individuals who may be listening?
Marianne Page
We can get few spare copies. Yes. As soon as they’re out, I will certainly get you a few.
Ryan Jackson
Brilliant! So, guys, if you are interested in receiving a free copy of Mariane’s book, then simply just leave or send us a message direct to the Parking Podcast and we’d be happy to get that for you.
Marianne. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Marianne Page
I’ve loved it. And I could sit and chat like this forever.
Ryan Jackson
It has been truly amazing. And I think you’ve really shared some pearls of wisdom. So thank you very much. And next time, we can’t leave it so long.
To find out more about Marianne Page, visit her website: www.mariannepage.co.uk
